Remedial Logic

Suppose I say that Mexigogue is a dirty filthy Mexican.

Suppose that TacomaBlaze then blogs that I had said that, but then I told him that Mexi was quite clean the last time I saw him, and might even be Puerto-Rican.

Then suppose that I said that TB is rotten liar, and that I still thought that Mexi was a dirty filthy Mexican.

Would you say that I flip-flopped twice?


  1. smijer says:

    I guess it depends on whether the second “flip flop” is only “reported” by “news” sources willing to pick up a press-release from an organization trying to repair it’s own credibility, who provides no actual quotes of your second flip-flop, and promise but do not deliver, further documentation at a future time.

    I would say that if that was the case, chances are you only flip-flopped the first time. Or did you just flip? Maybe the second time is the flop…

  2. Phelps says:

    So… if only a couple of people report it, I didn’t really say it? That’s straying dangerously close to Freedom is slavery/War is peace-land.

    And as for delivery, that was done days ago.

  3. Mexigogue says:

    For the record, I’m a dirty filthy American of Mexican descent.

  4. Lukos says:

    I laughed, Then I felt bad so I cryied….Then I laughed again

  5. smijer says:

    Point taken on reliability of the press, but given that the only “reporting” was relaying a press release from an already suspicious group like SBVT, who is trying to patch up their own reputation, then there just ins’t much credibility to the report.

  6. Phelps says:

    Only if you accept a priori that the Swift boat vets are “an already suspicious group … trying to patch up their own reputation.” Quite frankly, I’ll buy the word of 200 vets over 1 life-long politicans and a dozen or so war-buddies who happen to be on his payroll every day of the week.

    And that has nothing to do with partisanship; if you had seen a group of 200 pilots come together and say, “hey, I was in the Air National Guard in the same unit as GWB, and he was constantly gone, he was reckless in his plane when he did show up, and he kept throwing everything he could find at the commendation board to try to churn up medals” then I would find that credible too.

  7. smijer says:

    I’d say that their credibility is pretty much in tatters… They are being led by a Nixon operative and a freeper. One of their group has already recanted (assuming he didn’t unrecant later). They have no evidence, and none served in Kerry’s boat. The people closest to the action with Kerry all contradict SBVT story.

    What you have is 200 vets who are still angry about Kerry’s winter soldier testimony and his work with VVAW, and who were a little too gullible when O’Neill & co came calling. Maybe Kerry was wrong to relate the stories his brothers in arms told him of atrocities. Maybe he was wrong to ask Nixon to pull our troops out of Vietnam. Fine.. If SBVT could just stick to stuff that they know about first hand, or is a matter of the public record, then that’s fair play.

    The evidence is strong that this group was involved in was a recklessly dishonest smear campaign, and they definitely do have a damaged reputation in need of repair. The “further documentation” they promised hasn’t quite showed up yet, either.

  8. Phelps says:

    Sounds like you accept all that a priori after all, since the book detailing the stories hasn’t been released yet.

    As to the VVAW Winter Soldiers, Kerry didn’t say that people told him of attrocities. He said that he saw and participated in attrocities. That makes them his lies. From the chapters of Unfit for Command that have been released on the net, it appears that the SwiftVets are indeed using first hand knowledge.

    To my knowledge, the only allegation of a recanting was the Boston Globe article — and it is the exact situation that we are talking about. The article — written by a Kerry shill (and I feel safe in calling him that since he wrote the introduction to Kerry’s campaign book) — claimed that he recanted. He has said unequivically that he was grossly misquoted and signed a second affidavit to that effect.

    As to the further documentation? That is in Kerry’s hands. All he has to do is sign a 190 form — like Bush did — and release his complete military records. He refuses to do that.

    For those closest to the action? Are you talking about his subordinates on the boat? I don’t care what his subordinates think; they don’t have the skills to judge his actions. I want to know what his peers think, and his peers are without question of the opinion that he is not fir for command of the US Armed Forces.

    I’m sure that you sincerely want Kerry to be elected and think he would do a good job. I sincerely want Ron Paul to be elected and think that he would do a good job. I accepted a long time ago that Ron Paul is a deeply flawed candidate in American Politics when it comes to the presidency because of his history, and it is long overdue for the DNC loyalists to come to the same realization about Kerry.

  9. TB says:

    HAHAHAHAHAH… fuck! I wanna go to Leroys with you guys!

    it’s like my dream now.

  10. Phelps says:

    I’ve never been to Leroy’s.

  11. smijer says:

    Leroy’s? Where’s Leroy’s… I guess I’ll leave this thread with a link to the Talent Show’s questions for the Swift Boat People for Media Attention: